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Mormon Church should stay consistent in its beliefs

Abstract:
The Bible has been under scrutiny for centuries. Many of those who claim to follow the Bible's guidelines are considered oppressive, ignorant and closed-minded. Now, at least two of those adjectives can be removed from the Mormon Church's description.

Mormonism has long been known for its inconsistency and its vehement lack of acceptance....

  • Displaying 1 - 17 of 17

Alan

posted 11/12/09 @ 6:17 PM CST

You have got to be kidding me!

The sacred institution of marriage is at issue here, not civlil rights of workers.

I would suggest you study up on the reasons the LDS church has opposed homosexual marriage.

(hint, it's not about workplace or housing rights)
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Etan Thomas

posted 11/12/09 @ 6:24 PM CST

You may want to rethink the premise of the article. This statement was released by the Mormon church prior to the vote on Prop 8:

"The LDS Church does not object to rights regarding hospitalization and medical care, fair housing and employment rights, or probate rights, so long as these do not infringe on the integrity of the family or the constitutional rights of churches and their adherents to administer and practice their religion free from government interference."

The church's position has been misunderstood, not changed.
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David

posted 11/12/09 @ 6:40 PM CST

" Opportunity for growth is the main reason the church has made "strides" to support homosexuals in the city that is hub of all things Mormon."

Really? Seriously? Wow! That's news to me and I've been a member all my life.

Truly, there are two ways to look at it here. One is consistent with the basic tenets and teachings at the core of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and the other is political slander.

1. At the very core of our teachings is the family. This family as defined by God consists of a father, mother, and children. This is the ideal for which we are to strive. The protection of this central teaching is more in line with the traditional movements of the church than what has been portrayed in this "opinion" piece.

2. This argument has been used time and again as it suits the slanderer. People take it upon themselves to speak for the church when truly they know nothing about it. Political pressure does not govern the movements of the Mormon church. It is direction from God through His prophet that directs the church.

Many have surmised it was because of increasing political pressure that in 1978 the church lifted the ban on full membership to blacks. Is this the case? No. It was after continual petitioning to God by many in prayer and finally by revelation from God to His prophet that this policy was changed. Label it what you will, but this is the way it happened. If you want to know the reasons for the change, ask God. As of yet, He has not seen fit to reveal the purpose of these actions. Does He always have to be accountable to us? Of course not.

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord"
Isaiah 55:8
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val

posted 11/12/09 @ 6:41 PM CST

Contrary to this article's assertion, the LDS church has been remarkably consistent in its efforts to defend and support the definition that marriage is between a man and a woman.

As the statement the church made to the SLC Council made clear, the church is very comfortably against discrimination against gays/lesbians in such areas as housing and employment. The church's opposition to Proposition 8 in California was about defending marriage, not oppressing gays and lesbians.
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Donna Welsh

posted 11/12/09 @ 6:42 PM CST

There seems to be an overwhelming consensus that this is a ploy by the mormons.

The two most cited reasons are:

1) Mitt Romney thinks all of the negative press over the Mormon involvement in Prop 8 will hurt his chances in 2012 and requested a softer stance from the church

2) The movie "8: The Mormon Proposition" is going to be very damaging to the church and this is a way to get ahead of the bad publicity
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Etan Thomas

posted 11/12/09 @ 7:00 PM CST

Originally posted by

Donna Welsh

 There seems to be an overwhelming consensus that this is a ploy by the mormons.

The two most cited reasons are:

1) Mitt Romney thinks all of the negative press over the Mormon involvement in Prop 8 will hurt his chances in 2012 and requested a softer stance from the church

2) The movie "8: The Mormon Proposition" is going to be very damaging to the church and this is a way to get ahead of the bad publicity


If there's even a fraction of truth in that movie, it will be highly damaging to the GLBT. The Rolling Stone article summed it up:

"Prop 8 should have been defeated -- two months before the election, it was down 17 points in the polls -- but the gay-rights groups that tried to stop it ran a lousy campaign. According to veteran political observers, the No on Prop 8 effort was slow to raise money, ran weak and confusing ads, and failed to put together a grass-roots operation to get out the vote. "This was political malpractice," says a Democratic consultant who operates at the highest level of California politics. "They ****ed this up, and it was painful to watch. They wouldn't be allowed to pawn this off on the Mormons or anyone else."

This article outlines it nicely:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/24603325/samesex_setback

Based on the GLBT track record of ineptiude of the Prop 8 election, you'll find only a limited audience that would deem the GLBT as credible. For this reason, the movie will be taken with a grain of salt.

As for your Mitt Romney theory, if that was the church's highest priority, they never would have gotten involved in Prop 8. Nice try.
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David

posted 11/12/09 @ 6:59 PM CST

As a Catholic I do not support "gay rights".

Having anything to do with the mormons is a one way ticket straight to Hell.

The mormons were trying to show off to true Christians with the Prop 8 campaign. Just showing off to prove that are "Christians".

They are not Christians, they are a cult.

Anyone who reads the true Bible knows this to be fact.
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Donna Welsh

posted 11/12/09 @ 7:18 PM CST

Originally posted by

David

 As a Catholic I do not support "gay rights".

Having anything to do with the mormons is a one way ticket straight to Hell.

The mormons were trying to show off to true Christians with the Prop 8 campaign. Just showing off to prove that are "Christians".

They are not Christians, they are a cult.

Anyone who reads the true Bible knows this to be fact.


It would seem that you are correct. When you watch the movie "8: The Mormon Proposition" you will see how "Christian" they are. Nasty folks, those mormons.

http://www.mormonproposition.com
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Donna Welsh

posted 11/12/09 @ 7:13 PM CST

Ethan - http://www.mormonproposition.com

Check it out. Yes, damaging. Spin it however you wish but your argument lacks simple logic (and meaning). The mormons are bigots, arrogant and evil.
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Etan Thomas

posted 11/12/09 @ 7:30 PM CST

Originally posted by

Donna Welsh

 Ethan - http://www.mormonproposition.com

Check it out. Yes, damaging. Spin it however you wish but your argument lacks simple logic (and meaning). The mormons are bigots, arrogant and evil.


I expected a little bit more from you, such as a counter argument. Instead, you don't back any of your conclusions with actual analysis, evidence or arguments. Therefore, your conclusions and ad hominem approach to Mormons fall flat. Which part of the following quotes are bigoted, arrogant, and evil? I submit this as exhibit A: an official statement by the church.

(made prior to Prop 8:) "The LDS Church does not object to rights regarding hospitalization and medical care, fair housing and employment rights, or probate rights, so long as these do not infringe on the integrity of the family or the constitutional rights of churches and their adherents to administer and practice their religion free from government interference."
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RIck

posted 11/12/09 @ 7:23 PM CST

The Mormons are running everyone off their religion with their stepping into the middle of these civil rights fights.

Check out this guy on eBay who is selling his faith to the highest bidder AWAY from the Mormon church!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270482938903
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Tim

posted 11/12/09 @ 8:41 PM CST

http://en.fairmormon.org/Latter-day_Saints_and_California_Proposition_8

The truth will set you free.
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Tommy

posted 11/12/09 @ 10:13 PM CST

"The Bible has been under scrutiny for centuries. Many of those who claim to follow the Bible's guidelines are considered oppressive, ignorant and closed-minded."

I wonder which side of the debate this article will support? This is pretty much all I needed to read to know that this would be more of an emotional bash against Mormonism than anything else. Putting that aside, job & housing discrimination against homosexuals is a whole separate issue from gay marriage. The LDS church made a statement before Prop. 8 saying they would support gay job & housing rights, just not gay marriage, which has already been brought up in the previous comments. So to paint the picture of the Mormon church as selling out on one of the major tenets of Mormonism just so it can gain more members, in my opinion is unwarranted, untrue, and close to libel. I certainly don't agree with the Mormons when it comes to religion, but I have never reduced them to sophist sell-outs either...
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Peter

posted 11/13/09 @ 11:32 AM CST

The Mormon church is not particularly political. And the church is definitely no conspiratorial. Everyone else is lobbying, trying to put on a good face, being defensive, being politically correct. The church leaders do not think that way. They are trying to do the right thing regardless of what others think or how many members may leave.

The strength of the church is not in it's numbers but in the faith of the individual members. You can tear down all of the church buildings and censor it's leaders and the church would still be strong because unlike other religions, the number of members, leaders and buildings are not the strength of the church.

The church can fight for marriage and still support civil rights. These are not in conflict. The church has not stepped away from it's stand on marriage but understands that gays are people too and should not be treated badly.
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Joseph

posted 11/13/09 @ 2:39 PM CST

Originally posted by

Peter

 The Mormon church is not particularly political. And the church is definitely no conspiratorial. Everyone else is lobbying, trying to put on a good face, being defensive, being politically correct. The church leaders do not think that way. They are trying to do the right thing regardless of what others think or how many members may leave.

The strength of the church is not in it's numbers but in the faith of the individual members. You can tear down all of the church buildings and censor it's leaders and the church would still be strong because unlike other religions, the number of members, leaders and buildings are not the strength of the church.

The church can fight for marriage and still support civil rights. These are not in conflict. The church has not stepped away from it's stand on marriage but understands that gays are people too and should not be treated badly.


...and that's why Mormons place bans to limit the rights of gays and lebsians in state constitutions. No, they don't treat gays and lesbians badly at all.
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Seth R.

posted 11/13/09 @ 8:49 PM CST

There is no disconnect between supporting gay housing rights and opposing gay marriage.

Just opposing gay marriage doesn't automatically mean you hate gay people (though ideologues would like people to think that's the case). The LDS Church said they just don't want to see gay marriage legitimized by the government. That's really it in their minds. Treating gays nice is, in their minds, a completely separate issue.
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E-Dawg

posted 11/14/09 @ 5:10 PM CST

THIS ARTICLE IS A JOKE! LOSE YOUR BIAS AND LOOK AT THE FACTS! THIS IS TOTALLY SEPARATE OF GAY MARRIAGE! Maybe look at it if it were gun rights...can you believe in a right to carry a handgun but not a bazooka? Of course not, according to many of the poster's logic. And as far as the articles logic, his premise is extremely flawed, the facts don't back it up, and he's trying to connect totally different issues. If you're gonna hate on the Mormons, find a legitimate issue.
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